According to political technologist Karen Kocharyan, the West sets a condition, the issue of choice before Armenia
– Mr. Kocharyan, what challenges can Armenia face in the coming fall?
– I think there will be external challenges related to the EU Association Agreement, the Customs Union, in other words, with the West-Russia interrelations, as well as with regard to the presidential elections to be held in Azerbaijan, it is apparent that there is activeness both in the contact line, the latest provocation with respect to the Armenian soldier, and in the official statements and assessments raised from there. In other words, the activeness will be expressed mostly with such activities rather than internal political struggle.
– Do you think that the issue of the West-Russian choice will get tougher in the future, taking into account the fact that a lot depends largely on the decision of Ukraine than Armenia with regard to the future the Customs Union at least at this point?
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– Ukraine’s case is different in all respects, the differences are many, for example, in terms of points of the agreement, because Ukraine does not have the Karabakh problem. Ukraine is more self-sufficient country that Armenia, it is a state rich in resources. Most importantly, Ukraine is headed to signing of the Association Agreement, we are headed to initialing.
It’s another issue, yes, I agree that if Ukraine refused to sign that agreement, other countries are of less interest to Europe, including us. There were publications in the media regarding “either-or” and “and-and”, and not only in the media, if I’m not mistaken, in the third Summit of the Eastern Partnership of EPP leaders in Chişinău, the President Serzh Sargsyan, looks like, stated in his speech that “either-or” is unacceptable when he stated that the Eastern Partnership by its nature is an initiative aimed at creating cooperation and not controversies, it is not directed against any state or group of states, and this partnership is aimed at ultimately overcoming the divisive lines. (“Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area Agreement, which is currently being negotiated with the European Union, it will not be fully operational after the entry into force if the Armenian-Turkish border will remain closed. We believe that the European Union should seriously discuss the issue of closed borders, because, in their presence, the trade with the EU Customs Union may not be effective,”- said S. Sargsyan). If the West sets forth the issue of “either-or”, I think there will be problems.
– And if Russia, however, still officially announces and sets forth the issue of “either-or” before Armenia…
– Russia will not set forth the issue of “either-or”. Still a year ago, when the former German ambassador to Armenia stated that “it is impossible to join the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade area agreement with the EU, and on the other hand, at the same time, constituting a part of the Eurasian Union, or joining the Customs Union”, Russia responded that it could be “and – and”, they are not against “and – and”. That is to say, the West sets forth the issue of choice more. Well, we are always used to that the Russians exert pressure on us, set forth absurd claims before us, but in this case it turns out that the West exerts more pressure on us with regard to “either-or”, in other words, the West sets forth the condition and it is clear why, because it could become a precedent for them, because so far there is no “and – and” for them.
– But this “pressure”, “stings” are, however, clearly expressed by the Russian side, at least so far on the level of the RF former Ambassador to Armenia, or the Russian expert circles.
– Not however, but there are serious pressures when they point out the example of Ukraine. Of course, there is pressure, but I think that the pressure is not for “and-and”, but for the issue of “either-or” choice with regard to the initialing the Association Agreement.
– Mr. Kocharyan, recently the civil society is showing activeness in various aspects, even though various doubts were expressed about their activities, for example, the ANC believes that the authorities in “We pay 100 drams” movement ‘have introduced their agents’.” How do you feel about the activeness of the civilian groups?
– These are just words, there is no evidence. Well, you know, now someone else with the same logic can say that the four years rallies of the ANC were controlled by the authorities. Of course, they will controvert that they were imprisoned, sent to the jail … People, here, are also beaten, they get brain concussion. In other words, people announcing such things must prove.
– Anyway, what do you think, will the activeness of the social groups go down, or it will become stronger, can they even replace political forces with more productive activities?
– The social can never replace the political processes. They are parallel processes all over the world. Should they replace, it would be an abnormal phenomenon. I think the demand of the times lies in the base of recent procedures, the internet, availability and accessibility to information, which contributes to the development of civil society. If until now it was missing, but now civil society is developing in Armenia, which is unusual for us, if not the outbreak of 1988, which, of course, was largely a national, and not a civilian. Civil and political processes should proceed in parallel. I do not clear to me as to why the political forces should deal with the problem of the park, they can raise the issue, but it is not a political battle. They have these tribunes, the Council, the tribunes of the Parliament, let them raise the problems.
– How proportionate do you consider the counter reaction of the law enforcement to the protesters a few days ago on Komitas 5 Street?
– Over the last two years, the police was keeping quite discreet, more civil, it was not displaying such a tough attitude. I think there were some provocations from both sides on Komitas 5. I do not want to protect the police at all, it is clear that there are some meaningless figures over there, who should not have anything to do with the law enforcement, in general, and the state system. But if we consider how civil movements are oppressed in the world, including in the most developed western countries, they treat much more severely. If the matter is about Argishti Kiviryan, what it means to make the man get into the car and beat him to the point that the latter gets a brain concussion, in other words, it is clear that they were “animals” and not the police officers. But, in general, bringing water cannons, rubber batons, beating, pulling, the police all over the world act as such, let’s remember France, not to speak about the USA, try to play a trick with a police officer.
Emma GABRIELYAN
