Interview with Country Director of Eurasia Partnership Foundation Gevorg Ter-Gabrielyan
– Mr. Ter-Gabrielyan, what do we lose from Armenia’s change of Western orientation so far to the north, and whether we win something?
– Who are these we? I have not had any orientation, apart from Armenian sovereignty. The fact that a man is making a statement or writing a letter and then can do other deeds, that, let’s say, will destroy a few number of covered market, has nothing to do with my understanding of “we”. Thus, there has been no change in orientation, because some people have orientation, and some people did not have it or is addressed to other directions; a man is oriented to his purse, his clan, and his boss. In general, I have never been a supporter to orientation approach while discussing the policy of Armenia. As a sovereign state, Armenia is obligated to equally develop relations in all directions.
– No matter how much we talk about development of relations in all directions, at this moment Armenian state that it enters into the Customs Union, in response to which EU officials said that it is the choice of Armenia, and we may forget about the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement.
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– In this case, we have a situation that is very specific, outside of orientation, a large project will not to be implemented with the most powerful economic force. Naturally, Armenia will suffer from it. The sooner Armenia becomes a country free from visa to visit Europe, sooner Armenian becomes a country with a full right to study and work in Europe, sooner universities of Armenia become adaptable to European universities with curriculum and standards, quicker Armenia overcomes the challenges to meet the European standard of goods to be competitive in Europe with its products, more Europeans come to Armenia to live, work, do business, wander in the North Avenue, use Tatev ropeway, more Armenia participates in discussion of the fate of other countries with its European counterparts … more powerful, safer, stronger, more capable, more benefit, more secure Armenia will become.
– Will the project of joining the Customs Union be realized?
– Maybe not. May be it was Putin’s aim to show that he can make Armenia to do nomenclature, whatever he wants, that’s all, to to refuse from seeming beneficial option. May be his goal is to enslave, russify Armenia. May be it is Armenia’s nomenclature. But, let’s assume that this process continues, whether Russia is against corruption. No. On the contrary. Corruption flourishes there. Is Russia against the sole authority? No. On the contrary. Russia has created a system where the decisions in this huge country, from bottom to top, are made solely. Then given person can suffer, but as long as it is a wide-scale official, the decisions are in its hands, and nothing can be done against it. The cult of xenophobia is flourishing in Russia. Putin said something ‘the court changes the decision’. Putin said that it was not a piracy, in one night Greenpeace’s charges was transformed into a heavy hooliganism of piracy. It reaches ridicule. What will Russia bring to Armenia? Cult of the official. Cult of xenophobia. Cult of Putin. Cult of policeman. Moreover, cult of unfair, fearful police. Cult of corruption. Cult of Gulag. Cult of nomenclature church. Absence of a court. Extremely corrupted judges. Corruption of a huge part of media. Announcing civil society the main threat, together with the West. Declaring civil society internal enemy. Of course, he is an enemy, enemy to this nomenclature. But, the country is not the nomenclature. Civil society is the country. It’s all that Armenia’s nomenclature, and large sections of the people will copy Russia with pleasure, voluntarily. They are in a hurry to copy it, this was just what they wanted from inside, and they were building it to the extent of their capacity, although everything still was not clearly defined. In addition, Russia will bring the contempt towards Armenians. Its typical contempt, which is not much, especially directed to Armenians, or even other Caucasus or post-Soviet ‘dark complexion’ nations, to any other nation, because Russian people with its massive kind never had the opportunity and the remedy to learn to respect other people’s culture. It inspires reverence to some cultures if it reveres these nations, such as the Great Britain. But it does not respect other people’s culture as such, regardless of the size and wealth of the nation. Why? Because there is a great-power chauvinism, which was cultivated for centuries, and has never been cultivate the opposite.
– Life made you live in the Soviet territory and in Europe. What are the cultural differences?
– Today’s major cultural differences between Europe and the former Soviet Union are as follows: in Europe, the educated man does not much differ from illiterate, because the number of illiterate is few. There is a unified standard of education, which corresponds to a large part of masses. Here, in Armenia and RF, it is a barrier: the educated and illiterate are unable to understand each other. In twenty years, we probably lost the best thing that the USSR had given to us: more or less equal education. In Europe, people are not afraid of the police; police is the friend of the citizen. In Europe, tolerance is not an empty word; man is truly free in his private life, to live the way he wants to, if he does not disturb others. Even if he bothers nomenclature with his demonstrations, he will not be suit to court for it and will not be put to jail, if his has merely held a demonstration, it is just against nomenclature, at the pleasure of single high-rank official. In Europe, believers and atheists do not attack each other, tolerating each other they are living side by side. In Europe, the There migrants coming from other cultures mostly get adapted and study, become European. In Europe, the states are working for the welfare of the people, more or less. However, large parts of nomenclature are not constantly engaged in criminal crime.
– You present Europe the way you see it, the way I have seen and thousands of our citizens, but a campaign has started in Armenia, in which Europe is presented as a vicious regime.
– What I said are tendencies, there are also exceptions. Why does it seem to the philistine that Europe is in a disastrous situation? Let’ assume that announcing this is not a political order, but an honest opinion of an honest philistine. There are two things to say here: one that information flows have been multiplied, the news should mainly be about bad, it is a sensation, drawing attention, and thus, philistine receives information that something bad has happened in Europe, and then generalizes that as if it is bad there. It is clear that only the stupid can undiscussingly approach the information, to believing it directly. Only an uneducated person can generalize one case and announce that the whole is such. For example, if an Armenian or Russian did bad to him, to announce that the entire nation is bad. (Also pay attention to what news is coming from the RF, let’s recall also our personal efforts in Russia). There is one more consideration: the torrent of this very negative news that is propagated nowadays that as if Europe is on the verge of collapse, it had begun centuries ago in Europe. Since early 20th century, it had become a full developed ideology that Europe is on the verge of collapse, it is doing to recession, sunset. It is simply self-criticism, self-alertness, we are constantly going to recession to rise again. We are constantly on the verge of collapse, we exaggerate, as if now, right now we will be destroyed to avoid it from happening. We are not ashamed to publicly show our illnesses, our problems to us and others. We do not declare that as if we believe that the strong leader, the police and our dear KGB will solve all these issues. This transparency helps to overcome them. This is what Europe says. Let the naive Armenians do not believe the declination of Europe. Although, I do not think that there are many of such naive Armenians. The majority of people have been there and have seen with their own eyes. Of course, there might be a person who even does not believe his eyes. But he seems believing the nomenclature. It’s something else. Those who insist on this are executing a political order.
– And in reality?
– In reality, Europe is flourishing. And it is less likely to expect harm from enlightened flourishing forces than from dark and rotten force. It is not necessary to be Kant to understanding this. Enlightened flourishing force benefits even to its colonies, not to speak about partners. Get closer to Europe, and your nomenclature will be educated, less, accountable, hard-working, capable, receiving high salary and mainly non-corrupt. The unemployed will be more or less safe, and the government will be concerned in the matter of giving him job. Your prison will be a place where you, the stray, strive to spend winter season there, it’s so comfortable there. But, problems are everywhere. Yes, if migrants are living in Ghetto, sooner or later they will come out into the street, like in Britain or in France, and will try to forcedly protest against their desperate situation, which is the issue of their identity. They can not become a European, if they live in Ghetto, and can not remain underdeveloped. They turn blue from it. If the state pays for itself very much and is fast and dissipated, sooner or later the whole society will suffer, like in Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece. But, is it better to be destroyed than to hold harsh reforms to correct the situation? Here, in contrast to Europe, robbery, unjust and desperateness is everywhere.
But, it is also possible to get rich in Russia, if you agree to pillage, and as it is a great and powerful country, sometimes one can also become rich with less pillage, in other words, pillage, of course, but with more shamelessly than your surroundings, on the contrary, plunder with more conscience. Now, the hope of our keen ones is this that getting close to Russia, they will plunder with more conscience than others and will prosper. But, let’s be honest: such nomenclature that we know, whether our dear nomenclature could realize this Great and Comprehensive Goodwin agreement, in reality. Of course, never. We were deceiving ourselves, so as Europe when saying ‘it’s ok’, let them sign, then they will start the reform, in the meantime, it’s ok, let them plunder little by little, let the not be transformed, let the injustice continue. But, when they sign, says Europe, they will have no way out. Is it possible to implement such a compound reform with this nomenclature and under these conditions? Of course, not. Actually, nomenclature was lying to Europe, Europe was lying to itself and us, we were lying us a little bit, it was not ever going to be that this nomenclature, at least, signed this agreement, that it could handle it. It was not going to happen and did not happen. But, it will take some time, the nomenclature will change, and the fate of Armenia and Europe to be together will be inevitably realized. And as for Russia, however it wants, if it wants, let it join, if not, the writer Vladimir Sorokin has already described the fate expected to isolated Russia, for example, in his work “Kremlin made of Sugar”.
Interviewed by Melania BARSEGHYAN
