Hovhannes Igityan, an international expert, and Stepan Grigoryan, Director of the Institute on Globalization and Regional Cooperation, are discussing the topic in the “Face to Face” talk show of Aravot online.
Aram Abrahamyan – In my subjective perception, our Maidan happened, however, not on March 1, 2008, but in 1988 until 1990, as a result, people of my age and my environment: Stepan Grigoryan and Hovhannes Igityan, without spending a penny, became Deputies of the Supreme Council, thanks to their ideas. Do you agree that real Maidan was in 1988?
Hovhannes Igityan – It depends what we mean by saying Maidan. Generally, Maidan as a location of Orange Revolution took place in 2004. Or, if you compare with the Georgian Rose Revolution, Maidan was considered a rebellion, which somehow or other was associated with rigged elections. I agree when you want to consider Maidan from 1988-90, when there were no elections, nor a possibility to come to power. When we were going out onto the street, we had two options, either to return home or to appear in CMG cellars. At that time, we were not thinking about power, and the people who are saying today that these people came to power using the Karabakh movement, it was not so. If we try to compare present Maidan in Ukraine as an ideological rebellion with an Armenian event, it definitely can be only the years of 1988.
A. A. – Since people in Armenia more watch three Russian federal channels, the Orange Revolution there is presented in a negative light that it is American or some Masons, or Europeans, or someone’s dark plan that wants to harm Russia. What is the meaning of “orange”?
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Stepan Grigoryan – First, I want to say that information flows are very important. Armenia’s information system is at stake. Sometimes, I am surprised at such primitive perception of Ukraine processes in the Armenian people and among our experts, then I realized that it was coming from the fact that we are “rebroadcasting” the words of Russian channels without thinking, without having it processed in our minds, including the journalists. The claim that there is a fascist revolution in Ukraine, while a classical democratic process is going in there, which we call Maidan, earlier, they were saying the Liberty Square in Armenia, when the people rose in rebellion. We were hearing from Moscow that we are extremist, separatist, but people became a factor and forced the authorities to go for some steps.
A. A. – Yanukovich was corrupted and fled. Whereas Parashenko, Timoshenko, and Avakov… Are they corrupt?
H. I. – Since they are opposition, it is difficult to use the word corrupt for them, but the fact that in time they have used their public position to become rich, it is obvious. This is why people in Maidan and entire Ukraine does not trust the government so as the opposition. This is the very “Maidan” phenomenon, when people, already hopeless, being represented as a power in the parliament could move its interests forward, is already disappointed of the opportunity, and goes out to the street. And that is reason, when the same Yatsenyuk who was considering himself as one of the leaders of the opposition, when he was trying to lead or make a speech in Maidan, disserved whistles or discontent.
A. A. – I have often read in our media that if not the March 1, there would not be so bloody clashes in Kiev, in other words, it was an experience for the government to imbrue people’s revolt in blood, if one was condemned, the other would not have happened.
S. G. – Parallels can be drawn, but I do not agree. The interest of Europe, Russia, and the United States to Ukraine is hundred times higher than that of Armenia. It is clear, it is a big country and has also a big market, the geographical position is very important by the very European context. This is the reason that Europe and the United States are making plans in Ukraine, including those of public. In Armenia, the same European Union and the same United States were doing projects, and the people whom they were financing, today have taken the stance of “pro-Customs”. In Ukraine, it is excluded; they are surely working with people who are the carriers of European values. The importance of Ukraine was very big. Whether or not “March 1” massacre would be accused in Europe or America, it does not matter. For Ukraine, the accusation was inevitable.
Prepared by ARAM ABRAHAMYAN
“Face to Face” talk show is implemented by the Open Society Foundations-Armenia. The views and analyzes found in this show are expressing the opinions of the participants and are not approved by the Open Society Foundations-Armenia or its Board. This report is made possible by comprehensive financial support of the Open Society Foundations-Armenia, within mass media support program, grant No 18624.
