The topic of “Face to face” talk show of online Aravot is discussed between the Chairman of Armenia Helsinki Committee Avetik Ishkhanyan and journalist David Petrosyan.
Aram Abrahamyan – On April 17, Russia, Ukraine, the European Union, and the United States signed a declaration in Geneva, which was aimed at the directions of resolving the crisis in Ukraine. Are the parties ready to implement the clauses thereof?
Avetik Ishkhanyan – In my opinion, now there is such a situation around Ukraine, which at the best wishes, even if Russia is willing, it is very doubtful that it is possible to mitigate the situation in eastern and southern Ukraine. In my opinion, the “Genie” has come out of the bottle, and it would be very difficult to rectify the situation. On the other hand, the Kiev authorities, of course, are receiving support from the West, and in this case, what the level of concessions, etc. should be is very difficult to tell. In my opinion, aggravation of the situation in the eastern and southern Ukraine after the Crimea, seems, Russia was ready to mitigate, should the West ease the sanctions. It seems to me that it was a carte blanche to go for concessions of eastern parts of Russia with regard to the Crimea.
A. A. – By one of the clauses of the agreement, “pro-Russian activists” should leave the occupied buildings. Do they leave or not?
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David Petrosyan – There are some places that discuss whether to leave or not, but in general, should there be a progress in the next few days or weeks, it will be very slow, because, in my estimation, the Kiev authorities currently are reluctant to change their political position at once, so are the activists of Western Ukraine and pro-Russian activists in Eastern Ukraine. In other words, it seems to me that it will be a fairly long process. The Geneva negotiations turned to be sad with regard to Ukraine: during the last 6 months, Ukraine turned from the subject of international relations to an object. It is a fantastic fact, since it was a vast country with a population of more than 45 million people.
A. A. – BBC footages – ordinary people in the streets of Donetsk are saying, if not the self-defense units, than the “Right Sector” will come and destroy them. Why is there such a fear in people?
A. I. – I am sure that 90% of humanity, perhaps 99 %, is a victim of propaganda, and the crowd falls under the influence of this campaign. I think that in these few months the information that we receive from the Russian channel, should we have believed, then all political forces in Ukraine, except for the Party of Regions and the Communists, all are Nazi parties, and Maidan initially was a Nazi. The people are under this influence and believe, they do not counterfeit, and the fact that there are some nationalistic forces, no one denies. Those who are de jure authorities, ultimately, they are mainly “Batkivshchyna” Party leaders that have once been in power, and it is true, they are moderate nationalists, and it cannot be said that the authorities over there are Nazi, but one gets the impression as a result of campaign.
A. A. What does “pro-Russian armed rebels” mean? Where did these people get so many guns? Are they Russian soldiers?
D. P. – When Maidan was organized, there were several aggravated situations, at which there were cases when the administrative buildings were occupied in western regions of Ukraine, there were also attacks on military units and arsenals, thus they obtained weapons. No one was punished then, and if it was not punished in Western Ukraine, why it should be punished in Eastern Ukraine. There were not soldiers, they were probably from special services, they have long been prepared for these actions, it’s another matter what happened in Western Ukraine: before that, they, in fact, were given a “carte blanche” in many of these issues, if we compare, they are mirror-like actions over here and there.
A. I. – In other words, Russia took advantage of the lessons of Ukrainian revolution, and follows the same technology: if they can, why can’t the others. Let’s go back to the Crimean referendum. A few days before it, Russia was denying the participation of Russian troops there. Recently, in his press conference, Putin admitted that the very troops were there to ensure the referendum, eventually, it was admitted. Although, they do not admit now, but the fact that all of these were not possible without Russia’s support and without the contribution of Russian special services, also, in Eastern Ukraine, of course, with provision of various materiel, including the weapons, I’m confident in it.
Prepared by Aram ABRAHAMYAN
