The “Republic” party leader, Aram Sargsyan, thinks that Ter-Petrosyan – Kocharyan tandem is not possible. “He has argued with his cousin in 8th grade and still has not made friends.”
– The tense situation on the border is still on, and there are two-sided victims every day. What will these tensions result in eventually?
– Hats off to our guys who compelled Azerbaijan signing the ceasefire during the war in the positions that our situation is ten times beneficial than that of Azerbaijan. We are in the top positions, and Azerbaijani armed forces and the positions are in our hands. Hats off to these guys, starting from the defense minister, the president, political parties and the society, who secured the rear, send the last bucket of potatoes of his house to the front and we had an achievement. Based on this, I think that Azerbaijan will not start a war unless its forces is forty-fold more than ours is. Now, Azerbaijan is unable to start a war. My friends having clue about military affairs say that even if Azerbaijan is armed with weapons of the 21st century, and Armenia with the 20th century, anyway, the advantages of our positions will enable us a full opportunity to give a counterblow.
– Many criticisms are voiced about the OSCE’s Minsk Group, which does not adequately respond to the situation. Border incidents-related statements are even ignored by Azerbaijan.
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– Of course, the Minsk Group could have made much serious achievements, but just the fact that after signing of the armistice, from 1994 until 2014, twenty years, we do not have a hot war process, we should be thankful to the Minsk group, the co-chairs, the presidents of its member states, who with their meetings, individually organized visits, etc. have done everything for the process not to turn into a war. I have always been of the opinion that the instability in this region is beneficial to Russia. Russia, which has unresolved problem of Karabakh, affects both Azerbaijan and Armenia. It’s enough to solve the problem, it will lose this effect. Consequently, it is not inclined to war. Especially after the events in Ukraine, Russia does not have the power to resume a war here. Even if it wins Azerbaijan by protecting us, anyway, it does not have the power. And it will not enter into war, it is not beneficial to it. Therefore, I rule out the possibility of war processes in that sense, but it does not mean that I should sit idle. We are sitting on a powder keg that could ignite by any spark. We should always be ready for war and should not fear of war. And we should do our best to bring peace, that any innocent victims, regardless of whether in the Azerbaijani or Armenian army, should not happen. Peace is required in the region, and not only Armenia and Azerbaijan should pay for the peace. Turkey, Iran and Georgia should also pay for it. Everyone would benefit from peace. The Minsk Group with its activities has also contributed to the peace process to bring it to a common denominator. Solution are not many, the solution is on one line, and a little to the right, Armenians will complain, and a little to the left, Azerbaijanis will complain. Therefore, the processes that were started during the Ter- Petrosyan’s tenure, by phase, by package, including today’s Madrid principles, except for Robert Kocharyan’s treacherous version of Meghri, will be in the context of this line.
– Recently, the Prime Minister of NKR announced that the Madrid principles are not acceptable for them. Earlier, the Karabakh side was saying that they are not familiar with the document.
– I think that the Madrid principles are seriously developed bases to continue the negotiation process. As to what subtle matters are contain in individual questions, I do not know and cannot express a viewpoint. I do not know how the Karabakh prime minister is informed about the document to express such an opinion. But even in case of being unaware, Karabakh should demonstrate its freedom. Politically, today, Karabakh as an independent state, and in this context Russia says, let the tax collectors be positioned there. They are keeping them independent and they are right. In the political context, as a political move, this is a right move. But, today, Serzh Sargsyan participates in these talks and the Armenian side, by the lips of the foreign minister, has repeatedly said that he is ready to meet at any place and is ready to discuss any principles. Azerbaijan is not ready to it. Recently, Azerbaijan is saying “no” to all offers hoping that it might all of a sudden achieve victory with its minor hooliganism on the border and psychological pressures. No, these are games, which are not in favor of Azerbaijan, nor the region. In this context, the superpowers, particularly, the Minsk Group, have serious work to do. Azerbaijan has fallen into astounding process from its oil capacity and is trying to show as if a power, but Azerbaijan is not the state that can afford to behave itself like that. (The interview was ready for publication when it became known that the French, then the US efforts vanished, and the Sargsyan-Aliyev upcoming meeting will be held on August 8-9, in Sochi – NG).
– Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, recently, said that Armenia would soon become a full member of the Eurasian Economic Union. On the background on current geopolitical developments, was it a statement of purely political significance, or the possibility of EEU, later the CU formation is still visible?
– I would like to refer to the possibilities, moreover, the statements by Russian foreign minister with regard to Armenia, many times they have not become a reality. Russia, with its political behavior, especially with recent political behavior with Azerbaijan, shows absolutely another thing. The matter is as follows: does our society want Armenia to be a EEU member or not? The government survey show that 40 percent of our society does not want Armenia to be a member of Eurasian Union in the same format with Russia and Belarus. I think that this number is bigger. Given Russia’s such behavior, I think that the supporters of this wing in the coming elections: political parties, NGOs and individuals, in case of acting unitedly, have real chances to win.
– By the way, official Yerevan, ultimately, expressed its position to Russian-Azerbaijani military cooperation, in particular, Russia’s sale of weapon to Azerbaijan. However, the President of Armenia did it far away from the region, during his visit to Latin America, and no other steps were followed after the president’s statement. What was the purpose of this statement?
– At least the government expresses its concern, but there are non-government forces, which consider themselves opposition and are not even concerned about it. Theoretically, these forces are saying that if they were Serzh Sargsyan, now Armenia would be an EEU member long ago. In other words, they would be more loyal to Russia, and as to what Russia considers to be loyalty, I know it very well. They are agent-level relations. So, in that sense, I think that it is good, even though late, but at least the government had overcome its fear and had expressed such a view. I wish non-government forces had overcome this fear over the time.
– Which force do you mean? Would you specify?
– All forces that consider themselves non-government. It is the parliamentary quartet with the exception of “Heritage”, which expressed against to the Eurasian Union’s membership. The remaining three forces are definitely in favor of it.
– In fact, in his last, urgent interview, ANC leader Levon Ter-Petrosyan spoke of the repression imposed on “Prosperous Armenia” by the government. However, it is notable that PAP party has refrained from talking about it publicly. Why did Levon Ter-Petrosyan decided to act again in defense of the PAP? Is a political situation changing? Can PAP possibly leave the Quartet?
– As far as I am aware, PAP and its President, Gagik Tsarukyan, have never announced that they are opposition. It’s another matter that the political forces cooperating with the PAP, based on some circumstances, want to see PAP as opposition. It’s their problem, I do not want to comment anything.
– It means that the possibility of Gagik Tsarukyan and Serzh Sargsyan tandem is never excluded, is it?
– I must say again, unless PAP has announced that it is politically an opposition, there are many possibilities of assumptions. But knowing the Armenian reality that you cannot even have a small shoe stand if you do not have common grounds with the government, have similar economy, business and political influence, I think it less possible. Either such political parties should accept that they have some agreement with the government, for which their property is not taken away, or the third, the worst option that they are serving the interests of a third state, which has a serious impact on the authorities of Armenia and does not allow them to touch their property. It is impossible to have a small property in Armenia and be an opposition. I am fighting against it, and my economic and political activities are the vivid example and proof of it.
– Former Advisor to the president on national security, Garnik Isagulyan, recently, stated that Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Robert Kocharyan tandem could change a serious situation. Do you agree?
– To be honest, I have no desire to comment on Garnik Isagulyan in any form.
– Do you see any possibility of formation of Levon Ter-Petrosyan and Robert Kocharyan tandem?
– No, I do not see it. Moreover, by Robert Kocharyan.
– Why?
– By essence, he is of a kind that I exclude. He has argued with his cousin in the 8th grade and still has not made friends. This is his kind of personality.
– Can the rally planned in the fall by the four parliamentary forces: PAP, ANC, “Heritage” and ARF, become a major political event in our lives?
– Your mentioned opposition or alternative forces, or parliamentary forces or non-government forces, they characterize themselves differently every time being afraid of the word of opposition. However, an opposition equivalent to these forces differs very little from the government. Their similarities are much greater. What they offer is the following: we would have much better relations with the Russian Federation, our path is to the Eurasian Union, we would keep ourselves more dignified, and we would communicate with the world so that no dust would rest on the interests of Russia. I am strongly convinced that these forces in upcoming political processes and the government would act unitedly because their ideological and geopolitical arena is here. The other forces, individuals and public circles should also be consolidated and act unitedly, and in this contrast, Armenia’s domestic and foreign policy debate would commence. The remaining processes regarding who will rule a little more or less than the other, has lied a little too much or less, is honest or not, is playing or not, are tertiary and would not have any effect. We are living in the 21st century, these processes are all gone, seen, learned, all are agile, and there is no naive person. Everyone understands very well who says what and why.
– Do you see a potential for extraordinary processes in the fall? Shall we have a fierce autumn?
– Extraordinary processes are possible in Armenia; their prerequisites are numerous: social hard condition, Karabakh issue, and geopolitical dire situation. Under this situation, I do not exclude the possibility of any fierce.
Interviewed by Nelly GRIGORYAN
“Aravot” Daily, 05.08.2014.
