The subject of “Aravot” online “Face to Face” program is debated about constitutional amendments by the Chairman of Gyumri Journalists Club “Asparez”, member of “Citizen Observer” initiative, Levon Barseghyan, and the NA RPA faction MP, member of Board and Secretariat of United Liberal National Party, Levon Martirosyan.
Nelly Babayan – Mr. Martirosyan, was the referendum on constitutional amendments democratic given the violations reported by local and international observers, as well as the media?
Levon Martirosyan – I think both the processes of the campaign and referendum have shown that we have gone a step forward in democracy, human rights and freedom of expression. I’m not sure that all our citizens know what they are voting for, both those who voted “yes” and “no”. I myself being an expert on constitutional law was witnessing and hearing such things from the supporters of “yes” and “no” that it was just ridiculous.
Levon Barseghyan – It happened so that by official data, exactly half of the population, with a very small advantage, attended the referendum while the other half completely ignored, and they are completely indifferent. I want to show almost equality of interested and disinterested people to the public, even if these figures are accurate. And those who voted in favor of, if by the official data it was about 63%, it means that about 31-32 voters attended out of 100 eligible voters. In other words, this draft wins the favor of barely 1/3rd of the population. Only half of the population was disinterested to vote either “yes” or “no.” And if we add those who did not vote to “no” voters, it turns out that the 2/3 of the population was not interested in the draft, they were against it. Approximately 50% of the population in Armenia was not interested in the process. As for the level of democracy, this time, the “Citizen Observer” had about 1,000 controllers in about 500 constituencies, about 1/4 coverage. Judging from our available facts, alerts, photos, videos and all whole information scope that we have received, a huge number of transgressions of the law, violations, and criminal offenses have happened. We, the “Citizen Observer”, cannot say that the elections were legitimate and democratic and they have expressed the will of the people.
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N. B. – In an interview with reporters, Hovik Abrahamyan, referring to the vide- and audio-recordings on the violations, has said, “They are disseminated by people who are interested in the elections and want to blemish and overshadow the election results, and it has no grounds because in the availability of numerous techniques, photos are created and posted in the social networks. I think that they are edited, and if not, then people will respond.”
L. B. – I support Hovik Abrahamyan’s constitutional right to have an opinion. I do not share this opinion, moreover, if someone falsifies evidence, makes false witnessing and false accusations, he/she should be brought to criminal responsibility. It would be correct if Hovik Abrahamyan and law enforcement agencies are consistent so that those who are engaged on deliberate falsification are brought to criminal liability, likewise, the other ones if all these pieces of evidence are true and not fabricated.
N. B. – Those who rigged the votes were doing everything so obviously that they have appeared in the center of the attention by the media and observers’ cameras. Do they have enough courage to be able to do criminal offenses without the permission of their supervisors or the authorities?
L. M. – I am in favor of talking by facts rather than the assumptions. Mr. Barseghyan said, in our opinion and so on. But it is defined by the law what should be done if there are violations. I’m in favor of concrete facts. I do not rule out that there were violations, we take is as a fact, and the violators do a disservice because no one needs the referendum to be passed by violations. If you make the number of complaints public to continue the discussion more substantively, because I assume thy were not many.
N. B. – Well, we will make it public, the RA Prosecutor General has issued a statement that as of December 7, a total of 381 different types of information (mass media) and NGO publications were examined, as well as alerts and written applications by the citizens. Of these, 296 contained information about apparent crime features that were sent to relevant bodies to prepare materials, and 82 publications were sent to various departments of RA Police station to carry out inspection activities. The Justice Minister has also said that 6 cases were initiated at the Prosecutor General’s Office, 2 more cases, if I’m not mistaken, are at the Police (the minister has said that 2 cases are at the investigative committee – N. B.). What does the fact tell that criminal proceedings are instituted for only 8 out of 381 cases?
L. B. – We have published about 900 alerts about a variety of violations, the police have sufficient resources to control them all. Their operative response equaled zero. Two days later, they are calling and saying, “Will you come and tell what has happened?” and so on. Now, do not imitate and pretend that you are working on it. I have received a letter saying, obligate your observer to come to the police station. So, is this what people have in mind? Well, it’s a shame. They are doing an imitation of the investigation. And if detected, we do a fake treachery, we are ready to answer.
L. M. – I think that many of the observers and the members of the committee, let this not sound offensive, are engaged just in the imitation. They should submit an appeal by the law. The law enforcement bodies may hear a report about the crime, but the report is not always a sufficient precondition, as it can be scrappy. We all are interested in everything to pass in a civilized way. Who needed to pass it with violations? For what? Well, it the ‘no’ won, the current Constitution was going to be active. I have friends that have gone and voted “no”, they cannot explain, why.
N. B. – The Spokesman of the State Department, the US Embassy, the leaders of the missions of the EU member states have expressed concern about the violations and called for a full investigation of all credible reports of electoral frauds. Will this impact to have truly an honest and transparent investigation, and whether these statements will affect Armenia’s rating?
L. B. – The statements by the international organizations will not have a tangible influence. All countries have their own interests, which sometimes coincide with the interests of our authorities, at times, with non-government interests. It will affect the rating, but to what extent the RA authorities are concerned about this rating. The RA authorities are not concerned about the rating, they are interested in preserving their power.
L. M. – We need to take the international opinion seriously. But if the referendum and any national elections are held in accordance with our legislation, we maintain our legislation and want everything to pass in a civilized way, as to what the international institutions will say is not so important.
Prepared by Nelly BABAYAN,
“Aravot” daily
