The interlocutor of “Aravot” is Samvel Babayan, the former Secretary of the Security Council of Artsakh and the Leader of the “United Homeland” Party (Miatsyal hayrenik).
– As a military and political figure, what actions are you ready to take if the current government of RA, led by Nikol Pashinyan, enters the practical stage of handing over Artsakh to Azerbaijan?
– First, whether it is Nikol Pashinyan or someone else, Artsakh is not a property to hand over. Secondly, Artsakh gained its independence by all international and Soviet laws, and this is not subject to discussion. I said that Artsakh would be an independent and safe state. We must go to that by all means, conducting negotiations with Azerbaijan and in International legal and security courts. Armenia and Artsakh should act on the principle of “one nation, two states” like Turkey and Azerbaijan. In other words, Armenia ensures the social stability of Artsakh, Artsakh decides the rest, and Armenia helps it. And all my efforts will be directed toward this.
– Why did you reject Ter-Petrosyan’s similar offer in the 1990s?
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– I did not reject Ter-Petrosyan’s offer. On the contrary, in 1997, I met him and handed over the whole package with a map of how we imagine what areas should remain and what we should give. Lachin and Kelbajar should be included in that document, and we should keep from 12,700 to 8,000 historical regions, taking into account the strategic importance of these areas.
– Do you think Aliyev is innocent when discussing direct negotiations with Artsakh, always declaring that Karabakh is Azerbaijan? By the way, he is not talking about direct Baku-Stepanakert negotiations but negotiations with “determined representatives of Karabakh Armenians,” and it seems he decides these representatives. Isn’t the dismissal of Ruben Vardanyan one of its manifestations?
– First of all, I met with Azerbaijani officials once. In 1994 we met to sign a big contract, and the delegation from Azerbaijan left. Mutual trust is precisely that, to meet, to present our demands, we have the task of clarifying whether they are honest when they say we are ready to talk. I have often said that Artsakh will not back down from its independence and will conduct its negotiations on sovereignty. I repeat: so that Azerbaijan does not become a vassal, that is, to preserve its independence, it must make concessions on the Artsakh issue. They also realize this, so they want to talk to us. That’s why we have to negotiate directly, together with that, enter the international courts, and advance our issues according to the law. Ruben Vardanyan’s question is different from what you said. Azerbaijan considers him a representative of Russia, which freezes the Stepanakert-Baku dialogue. That’s why they created a vacuum, so the government of Artsakh to get rid of him and go into negotiations.
– Who closed the corridor of Berdzor? For example, Nikol Pashinyan and the representatives of the CC authorities say that Russia closed it.
– Azerbaijan has blocked the only way to exert pressure and solve its problems. Russia will not be able to influence the process, and thus Azerbaijan will show us Russia’s weakness, leaving us no choice but to talk back whether we like it or not.
Interview by Nelly GRIGORYAN
