The interlocutor of “Aravot” is Gagik Avanesyan, a participant in the Artsakh movement and a public figure from Artsakh.
– Mr. Avanesyan Nikol Pashinyan announced that he recognizes Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity, including Artsakh. The negotiations proceed according to that logic; how do you evaluate the processes?
– Undoubtedly, there are opposing views on this statement in Artsakh. The authorities of Armenia immediately make such statements in the negotiations and make concessions in every direction without receiving any benefits from Azerbaijan. I am sure that this “peace treaty” will not be signed, but Nikol Pashinyan’s statement is already dangerous. Our ban is being lowered in the negotiations, and it is more difficult to get out of it. I will remind you of the 1999-2001 negotiations when they started discussing the Meghri exchange with Kocharyan, which we refused, but the fact that we discussed it left a consequence.
And here, after 20 years, that question is again put before the next government. A negotiator must know the value of any word and the value of any thought. Nikol Pashinyan calls out the number of 29,800 square kilometers of the territory of Armenia, but he recognizes the 86,600 square kilometers of Azerbaijan for what? I don’t know who Nikol Pashinyan’s team is or what it is, but I want to remind you that there are other options and points of view regarding Armenia’s borders.
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I mean the Republic of Armenia recognized by the League of Nations, while Azerbaijan still does not recognize itself as the successor of the Azerbaijan SSR; it identifies itself as the successor of the First Republic of Azerbaijan, which again does not recognize the borders of Armenia. Well, let’s assume that Charles Michel spoke, and Nikol confirmed that he recognizes the territory of 29,800 square kilometers but discuss, please, the rights of the people of Artsakh; now the question arises: did Aliyev say anything about how many square kilometers he recognizes the territory of Armenia? There is no announcement.
– On behalf of Aliyev, Nikol Pashinyan stated that there seems to be a perception that Azerbaijan also recognizes the territorial integrity of Armenia.
– Yes, he said that he expressed his willingness. The dangerous thing here is that you lower your bar from this chapter. The problem is that this is not only Nikol’s problem; this is the problem of the way of thinking that was adopted from the first days of Armenia’s independence. The same policy guided Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s team: let us concede or recognize the 29,800 square kilometers. Now Nikol’s team is saying this; according to them, we were doing wrong for 30 years while fighting for the liberation of Artsakh. This team has this defeatist mentality, they are afraid of what they are, and they are leading us in this direction.
And naturally, the public raised this question, that is, the relatives of the victims of the first Artsakh war, the relatives of the victims of the 26-year war, and the relatives of the victims of the second Artsakh war did not understand why we took those people away and sacrificed them. It is impossible to change an entire national ideology by the willful decision of a single person or some team.
We never created a state ideology; during Serzh Sargsyan’s time, they were allegedly pro-Russian, but we did not see anything pro-Russian, because the victorious state did not recognize the independence of Artsakh. And in the negotiation process, they led us to concessions, which were still incomprehensible. Today at least, we have to consider that we are a defeated state; the army is in the reconstruction process, but what were they doing during 26 years?
– How do you evaluate Aliyev’s statements? He announced that he demanded that the Artsakh authorities dissolve the parliament, the officials surrender, and there will be an amnesty.
– First, Aliyev’s statements are illogical. He says that the Republic of Artsakh does not exist, and if it does not exist, what kind of president are you talking about that should surrender, or what National Assembly and deputies are you talking about? He knows very well that our state institutions today are a form of self-government. Now we govern ourselves in this way, which the whole world accepts. Aliyev makes these statements for his people to show that “we are the ones, everything is in our hands, and we are the owners.” He is in a hurry; some situation changes, and he tries to get the maximum.
From this point of view, if the authorities of Armenia are also delaying the process, it is somewhat understandable. It should be delayed until the situation changes; let’s see what they do. But the fact that Nikol Pashinyan is trying to give in, even with words, is dangerous.
He should not declare that he recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan; he should ask the question; if I recognize it, would you do it too? On the other hand, I want to remind you that 86.6 thousand square kilometers also include Nakhichevan, which was assigned to Azerbaijan as a protectorate. How do you recognize that protectorate within Azerbaijan? Ethnic cleansing was carried out in Nakhichevan during the USSR.
Roza HOVHANNISYAN
“Aravot” daily, 03.06.2023
