“In 2020, Nikol Pashinyan’s period of defeats began. The bets run out, but he continues to play. Now the bet is the Homeland.” The interlocutor of “Aravot” is Karen Hekimyan, the Leader of the Conservative Party
-What was Nikol Pashinyan’s last five-hour press conference about, to whom, and what message did Nikol Pashinyan send, especially when he was talking about humanitarian supplies through Akna, direct dialogue between Baku and Stepanakert when he said he did not want to think about what Yerevan will do when the war starts in Artsakh.
– I have had to say that Nikol Pashinyan is a passionate player. He plays till the end. There is no stopping such players. They need the concept of bet size and limit. They play until the end. In such cases, for the most part, the game ends with life. Pashinyan should not expect anything else from Nikol. He will play as long as he has the chance to bet. In 2020, Nikol Pashinyan’s period of defeats began. The bets run out, but he continues to play.
Karen Hekimyan, the Leader of the Conservative Party
Now the bet is Homeland. And it is in that dimension that we should consider all his steps, including the 5-hour press conferences, their messages, the thoughts expressed, and so on. Nikol Pashinyan pursues only one goal; shuffle everything, shuffle everyone’s cards, bluff, and, at most, win, at least extend time. There is no other logic in his actions and words.
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– Nikol Pashinyan also preached a big hate speech, reminded with a historical excursion that we did not have a state in different historical eras; what did he mean by that?
– Nikol Pashinyan and his teammates have been carrying out hate speech since 2018. It’s not news. As for the historical excursion and the periodicity of having or not having a state, it should also be considered from the point of view of gambling. In this case, Nikol Pashinyan tried to make the Kremlin understand that they would go a long way together and he is the force that the Kremlin needs. But, on the other hand, who said that the message was addressed to the Kremlin? To Turkey? Understand correctly if the player is Nikol Pashinyan, then the rules of the game, in the classical sense, do not apply.
– By the way, the Russian Foreign Minister also spoke about the dialogue between Baku and Stepanakert after the tripartite meeting of Foreign Ministers in Moscow.
– Talking about the Baku-Stepanakert dialogue, it is necessary to understand what is being said. Should the dialogue be based on the principle of equality? If that principle will not work, then what is the point of dialogue? Official Baku has repeatedly stated that it considers the Karabakh issue resolved. Then what would be the basis for discussion? At one time, Nikol Pashinyan said he was being asked to lower the bar for solving the Karabakh problem. The Baku-Stepanakert dialogue is the lowering of the bar. Now, we have what we have. We have to take that step. The Baku-Stepanakert dialogue will not take place, but its rejection may further lower the bar to, let’s say, the Ganja-Khankendi dialogue.
– Sergey Lavrov spoke about it after the Foreign Ministers’ meeting in Moscow. Also, the statement issued by the Russian Foreign Ministry mentions the return of Azerbaijani refugees. Still, there is no mention of Armenians displaced from Baku, Sumgait, Kirovabad, Shahumyan, Getashen, and other settlements. In other words, the immigration of Azerbaijanis to Armenia is expected.
– Look, you mentioned Baku, Sumgait, Kirovabad, Shahumyan, and Getashen, which were full of Armenians or inhabited mainly by Armenians. However, there is Artsvashen, whose status is not questioned or contested by any country. For the world, Artsvashen is an integral part of RA, just like Gyumri or Yerevan. And, under these conditions, for about 31 years, the issue of the return of Artsvashen has never been on the table of Armenian-Azerbaijani negotiations. And you say Baku or Getashen.
Currently, the negotiator on behalf of official Yerevan is only interested in one thing: staying in power as long as possible. He is ready to give up everything possible on the way to that goal. Azerbaijanis have understood this for a long time and are recording achievements step by step.
There is another side to the problem. Suppose we are talking about the previously Armenian-inhabited territories or Artsvashen, an inseparable part of the RA. In that case, we must understand whether there are beneficiaries of solving these problems. In particular, do our compatriots want to return to Baku, Sumgait, Shahumyan, or Getashen? Is there such a public demand? Right now, I am looking for beneficiaries of the Artsvashen return to form a visible public request for the Artsvashen return. It only works if there are beneficiaries. Let me remind you that we are talking about the community that is an integral part of RA. And if we record such a result in the case of Artsvashen, can you imagine what will happen in the case of Baku or Kirovabad? Unlike Armenia, there has always been a demand to return to Lachin, Kelbajar, and Ghubatlu in Azerbaijan, at least apparently. Accordingly, there were also beneficiaries.
Moreover, now there will be people in Azerbaijan who would like to return to Sisian, Kapan, or even Yerevan. The latter will form a public demand on this issue in Azerbaijan, apply to the European Court of Human Rights international courts, get political dividends, and win the cases.
There are not even those in our country who, at least to create a public demand, would like to return to Artsvashen, not to mention return to Baku and Sumgait. In short, only Azerbaijanis benefit from the absolute indifference of the current government and the national population toward national problems. And Sergey Lavrov and the rest take their share from Azerbaijan in return for the services rendered.
Interview by Nelly GRIGORYAN
“Aravot” daily newspaper, 29.07.2023
